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Christians, can you give me an answer?
You are so quick to say that the Covenant made at Mt. Sinai has been done away with.
Do you know what that covenant was? What was the covenant made at Mt. Sinai?
What was that "old covenant"?
Cheir : I don't believe the covenant was done away with. You're misunderstanding me. My days are filled with nothing less than Scripture study.
I want the church to tell me what needed to be done away with. I'm being a little "antagonistic" here.
Nevy : Jihad Warrior? I'm a Messianic Believer! You are spitting before you see what to spit at!
Everyone has missed it so far, so here's the place of the covenant. Exodus 19.3-8. This was the covenant (agreement).
We agree to obey Him and be His people, and He be our God.
That's the covenant. PERIOD.
What is so horrible about that? What needed to be done away with in that agreement? Is obedience to the Father something that needs to be abolished?
Kellygirlaj : There was no "new" covenant. Learn some Hebrew. The word is Chadashah, which means RENEWED. It's not a "new" covenant, it is a "renewal" of the perfect, eternal covenant made with Moses at Mt. Sinai.
Pastors are leading the people astray. This is getting scary.
BC : Love your last sentence. The New will contain the same INSTRUCTIONS as the "old" because they are one, and the same. Only the priesthood changed.
btw Torah means "instruction", not "law".
capnarlo : While not ALL Christians believe the Torah has been abolished, you are among a minority. The overwhelming majority DO think that the Torah was abolished. I was a church member for 25 years, so I'm not just spouting off about an organization I know nothing about. Thanks.
Abigail and Worshipful Heart : Exactly! Leave it to the ladies to give short, to the point answers without a lot of extra details.
It's too dificult to choose a best answer when several are right.
17 Answers
- Anonymous1 decade agoFavourite answer
The Main Covenant has not been done away with.
It is a Ketubah.
Yes it is scary what pastors teach, no wonder in the last days,
10 men will take hold of a Jew & say, teach us because we see that YHWH God is with you, We have inherited LIES.
Ten men represents 10 tribes.
- BCLv 61 decade ago
You have the Old Covenant correctly pointed out (though it can be more precisely pinned down to Ex 19:5-6).
So, the contract boiled down to:
Responsibilities of Parties:
Party of the First Part (God): Will make Party of the Second Part Kings and Priests.
Party of the Second Part (Israel): Obey the words of Party of the First Part.
Agreement in principle:
verse 8 >> Then all the people answered together and said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.
Ratification:
Exodus 24:6-8 -- And Moses took half the blood and put it in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, "All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient." And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you according to all these words."
Now the Old Covenant WAS perfect, in essence! But what God found wrong with the Old Covenant is found in the New Testament:
Hebrews 8:7 -- For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
But where was the fault? Not with the wording of the contract or its promises, but...
verse 8 >> Because finding FAULT WITH THEM, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
What was their fault?
continue verse 9 >> because THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
The problem was the Party of the Second Part (Israel) did not fulfill their end of the contract.
And have you noticed what the contents of the New Covenant will contain?
verse 10 >> For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
Notice, the New Covenant will contain the SAME LAWS as the Old!
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
The Mosaic Covenant is a conditional covenant made between God and the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai (Exodus 19-24). It is sometimes called the Sinai Covenant but is more often referred to as the Mosaic Covenant since Moses was God’s chosen leader of Israel at that time.
The Mosaic Covenant is also referred to as the Old Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:14; Hebrews 8:6, 13) and was replaced by the New Covenant in Christ (Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8:8; 8:13; 9:15; 12:24).
- loveChristLv 61 decade ago
I do not believe that the Old Covenant has been done away with. Jesus said He came not to destroy the laws or the prophets, but to fulfill them.
Gods word never changes or loses its power. This includes the Old Covenant as well as the New Covenant. The difference is we are no longer held bound by the law, but rather we are forgiven through the Blood of Christ.
We are now under grace. If you still live under the law, you shall be judged by the law. If you trust in Christ and the grace of God, then you are no longer a transgressor of the law because you have been forgiven. The blood has been shed that washes your sins away. Therefore you are not bound by the law.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
The Abrahamic covenant is not an old covenant, but an eternal one. God promised Abraham land, descendants and blessings. He will bring this to complete fruition. It is unconditional. The Mosaic covenantis a conditional covenant in which God will bless Israel and set them apart as a holy people and nation IF they follow God's laws (Deut 28). Jesus came to fulfill that covenant by being the FINAL sacrifice for ALL sin. The Mosaic covenant has not been "done away with", it has been fulfilled.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
TJ not all Christians say that . This is a replacement theology teaching which Christian Zionists do not hold to. Replacement Theology(RT) holds that all the promises made to Israel now belongto the Church. ( Some RT denominations are Catholic, Mormon, JW, Presbyterian USA, some Lutherens and Methodists as well as most Anglicans) Please do not lump us all together in one bunch. . I for one say that every single promise God made to Israel at Horeb and afterwards as spoken by all the Hebrew Prophets will be kept.
In the simplest sense I believe that the Covenent is all the laws God gave to Moses on Horeb mainly the 10 commandments, hence the ark of the covenant which was made to hold the tablets . I believe there are 613 laws total according to Jewish tradition contained in the law.
I do believe that the ceremonial laws of animal sacrifice have been done away with for gentiles because of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God Jesus Christ .( Hebrews Chapters 9-10) Also the early church decreed by the spirit of God that as far as the kosher dietary laws we gentiles are exempt except for eating blood and things strangled ( Acts 15:20 Acts 15:29 & Acts 21:25 ) As far as the rest of the law of Moses ,Jesus Paul ,Peter,Matthew, Mark, Luke and John made it very clear that we Christians are still to obey it. The main point of the New Testement is that obedience to the law will no longer deliver us , because it is really impossible to obey in every respect. Therefore Jesus being without sin is the sacrifice that does take away sin. But as Paul said:
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
So you see there are many Christians that do not believe this
repecement theology. I believe very much like Jews who are anxiously awaiting the coming of their Messiah . We both believe he is coming soon . Whether it is the Messiah's first or second coming is the main point of contention . I believe that all those people both Jew and gentile who are seeking and hoping in the coming of Messiah, who are in obedience to the law of Moses to the best of their heartfelt ability and who either know and trust Jesus now or will when he actually returns in glory will be saved .
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
- kellygirlajLv 41 decade ago
The covenant, or promise, was made between God and Moses and the children of Israel. Moses alone was asked to come up the mountain to meet God, to receive the 10 Commandments. When he finally came down the mountain and saw what his brother Aaron and the children of Israel had done, he threw the tablets down and destroyed the idol they had built. Then he had to go back up the mountain to receive them again.
When Christians say that the Old Testament has been done away with, we mean that there is a New Testament in place. Read Hebrews 8:6-13 and 9:16-17. If you have any other questions, please email me from my profile.
- 1 decade ago
OK Jihad Warrior you may not trust Christians but people don't trust people like you who is full of ignorance. The covenant i think was made because of the ten commandments, they had to follow a set of rules and try to convert others to this new way of living.
Source(s): try reading the five books of Moses again ......the first five books of the bible. it's been awhile since i've read them. - Anonymous1 decade ago
there is not a single scripture in the Bible that supports any idea that God changed His mind, abolished or did away with anything, changed His laws or instructions- as a matter of fact quite the contrary- the "new" or renewed testament confirms God's perfect instruction - it is clarified and strengthened.
Jesus walked out God's perfect instruction perfectly, those that claim to 'follow' Jesus have no justification for not following him in walking out God's perfect law. Jesus himself said he did not come to abolish or remove the law.
The law does not save- we follow the law because we are saved, because we trust God , we believe that He knows what is best for us, we know that His perfect instruction is for our blessing and our protection- a good father sets good boundaries for his children- it is a rebellious and defiant child that rebukes and rejects the instruction of his father.
Why would we assume, claiming that God is a good and perfect Father, that He would allow us to live in anarchy, rejecting the very instruction meant for our blessing?
God's laws were not given to the Jews- God's perfect law was ordered and ordained at the time of creation and was written on the heart of even Adam.
- 1 decade ago
There have been many Covenants made by God.
2 with Adam
1 with Noah
1 with Abraham
1 with Moses and Israel
1 with David
and 1 with Jesus for all man-kind.
The first one was with Adam, (don't eat the fruit). He bit it, so to speak. This is why we die in this life and have all kinds of other bad things happen. Adam was given charge over all creation, and he just had to make sure he didn't sin. Sin breaks the covenant.
The second one was made with Adam and Eve. It was basically the same as the first but with Adam and Eve living under their sins and outside of the garden of Eden.
The third one was with Noah. It was basically the same as the other two, be fruitful, multiply and subdue the earth. This one was made with Noah and his family, eight in all.
The fourth was with Abraham or Abram and this was the promise to bring salvation to all man-kind. He also promised to give Abraham many children and to give him a child of his own flesh with his wife Sarai.
The fifth was with Israel/Moses. It's commonly known as the Mosaic Covenant and it's basically the Law/10 Commandments. It also includes the Levitical Law, don't eat pork and don't eat meat which still has blood in it. This is the Law God put forward for the nation of Israel because God was making a holy nation of preists for Himself. (it's supposed to be reflecting the New Covenant in Christ).
The sixth was with King David. God promised the Savior of man-kind would be a direct decendant of David. He also promised David the throne of Israel and that his chosen son would succeed him and that his throne would be protected to the end of his son's days.
The first six were really just one big Covenant which is all considered the old Covenant. At this point each one is just adding on to the one's before it.
The seventh one is the one with Jesus Christ dying on the Cross for our sins. This one absolves the previous covenants for the individual Christians because they've died to them. Just like a husband dying frees the wife to marry another man. It's the same exact concept. This one is truly the only New Covenant because this one makes a new creature out of man so that he may start over with God... Hosanna!!!