Jesus' "brothers and sisters" and Mary?

I think that you can't have things your way just because you've made up a doctrine and now you have to stand by it because you've given it the weight of scripture.

Mary would not of sinned in any way by having sex with her husband and having more children. Why the Catholic church has chosen to turn her into a demigod is beyond me. She, herself, called God her "Lord and Savior" and someone who is free of original sin does not need a savior. It's too bad that they didn't check with the Bible before they came up with this philosophy.

Jesus Brothers Sisters

There are all kinds of different theories, but I believe these people were step-brothers, step-sisters, etc. The doctrine of Perpetual Virginity is inconsequential as far as I'm concerned. Not many people know it, but this is one of the things we Lutherans share with our Roman Catholic brethren. I just found this out not long ago, and it's something I've been meaning to ask my pastor about, but knowing Luther, there has to be some scriptural reason why this would be a part of our doctrine. Either that, or it's a tradition that makes no real difference in the way we practice our faith, nor does it contradict Scripture. Until I know for sure, I vote for the latter. We chant the Magnificat (that's Luke 1:46-55, for those who aren't familiar with liturgical worship) in our liturgy, and I see nothing wrong with doing so. I would even go along with the story of Mother Mary's assumption, calling Mary the mother of God [incarnate], and the idea that she made the greatest contribution of all by agreeing to birth our Savior, but that still doesn't mean I have to pray to her.

They were probably just step-siblings or half-siblings. Either way, it really makes no difference, doctrinally.

If you want to find out why the doctrine of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is included in Lutheran doctrine, you may want to check out the link I've provided. There's a lot of reading to do though (seriously, it'll take you a month or more just to read all this stuff), and I wouldn't know where to start. It's definitely NOT mentioned in the Small Catechism, so you can rule that out right away. Maybe check the Large Catechism... I don't really know. Otherwise I could just tell you plainly. Bear in mind that we follow the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, so I would think there has to be some kind of reason for this. Enjoy!

http://www.bookofconcord.org/

EDIT: I found it! This is what Article 24 of ''The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord'' (a part of the Lutheran Confessions) states. Keep in mind that the ''union and communion'' is in reference to the Dual Nature of Christ. It doesn't give any verse and chapter numbers (why all the Church Fathers wrote their confessions without, I'll never know), but it DOES give a reason for the Perpetual Virginity doctrine:

''24] On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother's womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.''

So there you have the reason for this doctrine. I'll come back if I can find anything about the ''brothers and sisters'' part.

Great question! This is something I've been wondering about for a while, but I probably wouldn't have bothered with it had you not asked.

Peace,

Drew

No, this is not wavering on the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity. There is no difinitive explanation of what the Gospel writer meant by "brothers and sisters". Jesus' "brothers and sisters" are minor characters compared to Jesus and Mary in salvation history.

The perpetual virginity of Mary has been something that has been written about by Church fathers since the first centuries.

this is a topic that will offer a vast divide. i believe people question it more now because we have put such an emphasis on sex. "how could they not have had sex" easily.... joseph could have been old, jospeh could have realizes - Mary was espoused to God, Mary just gave birth to His Saviour - do you really think sex was thought about?!

people always say -- those Catholics translated this or that wrong that "their" version is correct.... who's says - you?! that sounds silly but it's what we here time and time again.

no one will know realistically until we reach heaven. I do not believe that Mary had additional children for the sheer fact.... where were then when Christ was on the Cross? had there been an actual sibling to care for her Christ would not have had to entrust her to John.

I am not Catholic, but this is one of their teachings which causes me to shake my head. I do not understand the importance that is place on whether Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. She was married after all to Joseph and I believe God would not have found it sinful for her to engage in marital relations with her husband.

Nonetheless.... I also wonder if it is essential doctrine. If so then we must all ask God to make it clear to us. I do believe that she is to be honored for her faithfulness as the woman who carried Immanuel in her womb, and who raised Him. I also believe we ought to consider the woman with the alabaster jar is to be honored for her love for Christ.

I do wonder about the significance of praying to Mother Mary. Is it true?

But I digress.

In reading the Bible, I have always understood the context to mean half-brothers and half-sisters. Same mother, different father (Joseph). In the two churches I have attended I have checked with the pastorate and that is also what they hold true.

When, during Jesus’ ministry, “his brothers were, in fact, not exercising faith in him,” this would certainly rule out their being his brothers in a spiritual sense. (Joh 7:3-5) Jesus contrasted these fleshly brothers with his disciples, who believed in him and who were his spiritual brothers. (Mt 12:46-50; Mr 3:31-35; Lu 8:19-21) This lack of faith on the part of his fleshly brothers prohibits identifying them with apostles of the same names: James, Simon, Judas; they are explicitly distinguished from Jesus’ disciples. Joh 2:12.

Catholics like understanding everything very literally, as all ancient people did :). As to me, Mary could have even 30 children and stay virgin in her heart, just like some girls are virgins physically but if you look inside their hearts you'll see a whole big ocean of sin. :O The question is - are YOU innocent in your heart? Or you just like the game - finding where Catholics fail to prove their religion to be true?..

Stay innocent, and may God be with you!

James, Jesus's brother ran the church after Christ's death and condemned Paul for not being Jewish enough.

Mary, his mum, must have loved her bed sorts to have all those children, must have been in rude health too to have survived all those births.

if you say mary is jesus mother then.. mary would of been God wife.. because jesus is God son.. get it ??? but i dont know what is wrong in the bible.. and im not christain.. i can give you the verse..

OK .. here is the exact passage//

Matthew 12:46

jesus was still talking to the people whehis mother and brothers arrived they stood outside asking to speak with him so one of the people there said to him look your mother and brothers are standing outside and they want to speak with you ,

jesus answerd who is my mother who are my brothers

then he pinted to his disciples and said look here are my mother and my brothers who ever does what my father in heave wants is my brother my sister and my mother .. also there are more in Mark 3.31-35 and Luke 8.19-21 i know Mary is Jesus Mother.. but lok at what jesus says